If lemmy.world finds this, please tell my starving children that I love them.
When you are to the left of someone, they always call you right-wing… Never fails…
I have never been called right wing, and I’m just about as far left as they come.
I think the down-votes illustrates my point exactly.
I’m pro expression of freedom, full bodily automony (my body, my choice), anti censorship, reign in corporate power, higher top marginal tax, ending foreign wars (inc Ukraine), diplomacy with every government (inc the ones labeled terrorists. Remember; Nelson Mandela was also labeled a terrorist), tax included high education, tax included healthcare, more money to public transport.
Well thats some of it, and most of the first points are traditional left-wing issues, but in todays society, you get “right-wing” label immediately.
Right vs left is about Capitalism vs Socialism, and generally upholding hierarchy vs abolishing it.
You would not get labeled right wing based on those views unless you had other nonsense going on in tandem.
I would absolutely agree with you on your first paragraph.
But please answer this honestly, “my body, my choice” during covid was labeled “right-wing”, you agree?
Doing diplomacy with Putin to end Ukraine war was also labeled “right-wing” putin puppet talking points, no?
Both these are traditional left-wing values.
“My body, my choice” was not a right-wing stance. It was instead an anti-science movement. If you just listen to the words, its easy to think it might be leftist, but the intent behind it was absolutely far-right. A good comparison is “All Lives Matter” or even “White Lives Matter” as a response to “Black Lives Matter.”
Diplomacy with Putin to end the war can be right or left. Opposing Imperialism is left wing, what matters is the way you wish to conduct diplomacy, and to what outcome.
So yea, good chance you could be right wing.
“Believe in science”, that’s anti-science. “My body, my choice” has always been in context of abortion, and viewed as left wing. Here it’s the exact same words, the exact same meaning in context of taking an experimental redefined definition of a vaccine. It’s in this setting that characters make or breaks. If you cannot uphold your values when they matter, you don’t have values, you have hobbies.
It sounds like you’re a moral absolutist, and that is absolutely right-wing. Context is key. You can say “It’s wrong to kill”, but what if the person you killed was trying to kill you, and you acted in self defense? What if killing them was the only choice you had to prevent them from killing you or somebody you love?
Similarly, you can say “My body, my choice”, but the situation is different when you’re talking about getting an abortion vs. getting a vaccine.
Here are the rules in Norway from our FHI.
Vaksinasjon er frivillig All vaksinasjon i Norge er frivillig. Personer som anbefales eller ber om vaksine må få tilstrekkelig informasjon om fordeler og ulemper ved vaksinering til å kunne ta et informert valg. Det skal også være åpenhet om usikkerhet og kunnskap som mangler.
Translate it and see for yourself.
If you are to the left of someone, and they are not informed, they will call you right-wing.
Nah, not bothering to do your legwork for you.
Tax should pay for healthcare of all citizens.
Why am I paying tax if I still have to pay to see a doctor?
When I feed the poor, they call me a saint, but when I ask why the poor are hungry, they call me a communist. - Hélder Câmara, an archbishop
Hélder Câmara ❤️
Júlio Lancellotti ❤️
as somewhat of a ‘commie’ yea kinda, but again its crazy that someone who toils away at work for the better part of his life and earns a salary for his contribution to society will sometimes have to be hungry or homeless. on average you do all that and are at least always struggling for money come on.
considering we have smartphones, rockets and AI, at this point im surprised some people are not considering alternatives.
Yeah I think Republicans and centrist Democrats are involved in a massive gaslighting campaign against the American citizens. ie: the overton window, aka shifting what’s thought of as acceptable towards corporate donors requirements. Empathy is what makes us human.
You’re not far left enough for me if you’re still thinking that instead of “let’s go grab the guillotine”
The important part is to direct the anger towards the real enemy: the leeches sucking our planet dry and planning their escape off world. „Left“ and „Right“ are categories we were told to think in, along with buzzwords like „neoliberal“ and „woke“.
As in the definition of a cult, special language is used to divide us further and cut us off from one another.
Even calling for guillotines is kind of the same thing. We should stop killing each other. Just seize everything they have and leave them fending for themselves, same as every one of us.
As in the definition of a cult, special language is used to divide us further and cut us off from one another.
Which definition of a cult is that? Because there is no scientific definition. There are models for high-control organizations (a term used specifically because “cult” has too much baggage for scientific methods), and language is only one aspect of information control. Every single organization on Earth will create its own language for things. That alone doesn’t mean they’re high-control.
I’ve been in a high-control organization. It doesn’t work like that, and I think diluting the term to cover such broad categories is insulting to people who have been there.
Saying something shares the mechanics of a cult is not insulting to someone who has been in a cult if that is what you mean.
Its a pattern I recognized. People fight over who is right and left, neo-contra-whatever. Its ultimately not informative and makes misunderstandings more common.
And what I‘m actually saying is that the media is controlled by the same people who benefit from us fighting instead of demanding housing prices go down immediately or wages go up accordingly. Its not that hard. We‘re just told its impossible.
The idea that Capitalists are directly controlling the media and intentionally inflammatory to create endless culture war that divides the Proletariat against itself is a firmly leftist belief.
I know. I‘m just trying to get peeps from hating each other because this only helps those in power.
From the downvotes I deduce that not everyone likes the idea.
I mean, it’s also objectively true, but “leftist” and “true” align more often than not.
Leftists generally are correct and also morally superior to conservatives, yes. Conservativism is reactionary and opposes liberation, in favor of maintaining current power structures, even if it relies on outward hatred of the less fortunate.
Although it is understandable that you are frustrated with the „others“, I think the „right wing nutjobs“ are not what conservatism actually aspires to be.
If you read up on conservative values, the ideas are partly morally sound:
- limited government
- rule of law
- fiscal responsibility
- human dignity
Those were the only ones I could find that are most probably agreeable. I agree that fascists are evil but if we put everyone in that basket who wants to take care of their homeland we’re no better than them. We should know better.
Or did I not understand you correctly?
In my opinion, the actions of conservative people and politicians are inconsistent with their stated values.
I agree. Thats why I said it. Conservatism isnt the enemy. People are riled up against each other and ultimately themselves.
There’s a difference between espoused values and practical plans. Conservatives want strong government, draconian punishment to keep people in line, limited social safety nets, and traditional gender roles and family structure. All of this is built on regressive outlook and results from reactionary outlook.
That is what current „conservative“ politicians in certain countries do. What I‘m saying is that we‘re only hurting ourselves if we hate each other. Instead we must agree on things and keep each other honest imo.
One reason why conservatives turn to right wing nutjobs is because someone (populists) promises them answers they can understand. The evidently more educated side instead looks down on them. Its obvious from the derogatory language some people use.
I‘m saying we wont make this world better by killing each other. The enemy is in control of the media and tries to cut off education (paywall it, dilute it) so we‘re easier to manipulate.
The replies to this are insane. These people are actively harming millions. Its their fault if the world forms a fist aimed at their faces.
Far left in my country would be terrorist organizations from the leftover decades where terrorist groups formed around the Soviet communist idea.
I don’t think people should die but I do think people have a right to steal if that’s what will keep them alive. am I not far left enough
I’m actually surprised by people who think others should just die instead of stealing, if that’s the choice. Who wouldn’t steal?
Guess we won’t know since those people are dead.
It appears symbolism isn’t a trait you possess.
This argument is basically the same as those put forward by the right wing nut jobs that think their second amendment rights to tote a rifle will let them fight against the US govt.
Just because a method functioned a couple centuries ago in a far simpler time, does not mean it will function today. Gotta keep up with the times there gramps.
Did it? Friendly reminder to all that the French Revolution was a failure.
Are you operating under the impression that the French Revolution created the current republic? If so, you’re missing many, many steps. One of which was a fellow named Napoleon who crowned himself emperor.
I’m… agreeing with you…
Ah, was not sarcasm. My mistake.
That’s fine with me, I don’t have any interest in “let’s just kill a bunch of people” as an ideology. It’s objectively wrong.
That’s not the ideology though, guillotine memes are essentially just pushing for revolutionary restructuring of the state and economy. Nobody simply thinks “kill rich” and stops thinking there.
Nobody simply thinks “kill rich” and stops thinking there.
That’s news to me, I always got the impression that “???” Was the next step after “kill rich”
More accurately, revolutionary restructuring of society is the first step towards a better future.
In this case it would be self-defense. The only reason anyone thinks otherwise is because the danger posed by a billionaire money hoarder is far more abstract than what most people are accustomed to.
Billionaires aren’t people
Believe it or not, they are. Only humans are capable of such cruelty.
This is silly. Billionaires are people, otherwise guillotines wouldn’t be effective.
Right, a society of machines would never create something as vile, insidious and wasteful as a billionaire
The guillotines aren’t necessary if the rich would strive for a better society.
The thing is that they would never agree to that, so then we need the guillotine.
The path to a better society is elimination of Capitalism, so Capitalists aren’t really going to agree to that, no matter how nice it would make things.
What is Lemmy.ml’s perception of Lemmy.world for the shoutout?
Pretty sure the general attitude toward .world is that the users tend to be liberals, especially those who came from Reddit during the API fiasco. Generally people who mean well but probably haven’t engaged with the Linux, FOSS, Privacy, Anarchist, Socialist, or Communist communities before coming to Lemmy.
.ml itself is generally more leftist, a common misconception is that there are only Marxist-Leninists on .ml, when there are tons of Anarchists and Socialists as well, just much fewer liberals.
Where Hexbear is a big-tent “dirt bag left” server, and lemmygrad is an explicitly Marxist-Leninist-Maoist server, .ml is actually just focused on FOSS and privacy, and as such tends to attract more leftists than .world.
An example of the differences between .world and .ml I have noticed are on the recent death sentence for the KyoAni mass murderer posts. On the .world version, most seemed celebratory of the death sentence, while on .ml most were deeply saddened by the event but held the belief that the death penalty is wrong fundamentally, and that instead it should’ve been life in prison.
Just my 2 cents as a .ml user.
From what I’ve seen lemmy.ml is basically hexbear lite
So anyone to the right of them is literal Nazis
Pragmatism and nuance are for bigots and fascists, vote third party
nuance is for fascists
Fuck no wonder no one likes y’all lmfao there’s plenty of nuanced details in everything without it being fascist or bigotry
Commie. The poor will just trade the food for drugs, might as well throw it away as trash and shoot anyone that gets near it.
Walmart is that you?!?!
Source: I used to work at Walmart and they threw away so much stuff and locked it in a dumpster with constant surveillance
The people whining are literally brain damaged. Conservatism is legitimately brain damage. Given the harm they do though I have no sympathy.
You’ve got cause and effect backwards my man
Both can be true. Like a communicable disease, someone can have it and someone else can get infected and then also have it.
That is a very interesting research area.
That study states that brain damage can cause more conservative views, but the reverse isn’t true. Not everyone with conservative views has brain damage.
arguable
Idk I live in the south with lead pipes And lead has shown to cause brain damage And conservatives are the last to car about lead pipes
Hell my house sewage is just being pumped under the street cause our streets water main is broken
Yet the city claims it’s our responsibility to pay someone to dig up the street and fix it
We fixed our pipes to the main but we can’t afford to do all of that
What are you saying, you want the government to just bring you clean water? Like, without sewage? Like through some sort of taxpayer funded infrastructure? Fucking commie.
Tomato tomato.
I really wouldn’t mind the whole rhetoric of pulling yourself by the bootstraps if it wasn’t rigged. The system is literally made to make ppl fail.
There’s also the fact that it originated as an expression meaning “doing something impossible” since pulling on your own bootstraps would PREVENT you from getting up.
I’ve always wondered where i would land on the political spectrum if I didn’t live in the US
Do you think the Means of Production should be owned collectively, or individually? Do you agree with horizontal power structures being dominant, or do you believe more in centralization?
There’s a ton more to it, but those 2 questions pretty clearly give you a direction.
Choosing the first options is communism, right?
Collective ownership of the Means of Production is Socialism, generally. Communism is the specific Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society built on the foundations of Collective Ownership along Marxian analysis, but you can have Collective ownership in, say, Syndicalism, Anarchism, Market Socialism, Democratic Socialism, etc.
Well, if you want to abolish currency, inheritance, and all personal property you may be far left. Otherwise you may just be a compassionate for the poor.
personalprivate property, fixed it for youNo leftist in their right mind wants to abolish personal property.
Private property (factories and machinery) ≠ personal property (your clothes and fridge)
This is a far too little discussed distinction.
Tbf we should be capable of sustainability which by definition we wouldn’t need an economy that just funnels for the rich.
Why is the proposed solution always to just pay people more and not just make things cost less? The only reason I can find is that making things cost less doesn’t provide a scapegoat for everybody to rally behind, even though it would be more effective.
Because the stock market is the economy as far as our leaders are concerned. And they decided that anything other than green line go up is abhorrent.
Money is a means of determining the distribution of resources. It doesn’t matter if stuff costs less or if people make more money, what matters is that nessecities, at a minimum, are more equitably distributed. You can make that end goal take different forms. Money is a little awkward for that end because you use money to purchase both food and nice cars.
The solution isn’t either, it’s to collectively own the Means of Production.
Or just give people food. Where tf u bringing up cost of goods from?
I used to be that guy the first 28 years of my life. Then I realized many so called socialist gvt are backed up by the biggest monopolies, which in turn grow freely thanks to socialist unbalanced rules of competitiveness.
It’s cool to think socialist. It’s not cool to feed the monopoly.
What are you genuinely talking about? What are Socialist unbalanced rules of competitiveness?
Usually they refer to the government corporations.
Good thing America doesn’t have any monopolies under capitalism
What a relief!
I’m in my 40s and I honestly still don’t understand the appeal of the GOP to the average American. I have never seen them put forth a policy that does not seem to be shitting on one group or another. What has the GOP done in the last 40 years to make the average citizens life better?
That they hate some of all the other people the consevative voters hate, and they are happy to starve if the group they hate starve too.
It is a stupid premise I know, but you can see posts about evil things the gop does, and somehow “centrists” find a way to blame the democrats for that.
Its partly like that but its MORE so that they are utterly convinced that all thier troubles including they they are poor is some other groups fault, and even when they do have doubts theybare unable to express them without fearbof losing thoer status in theor in-group. So they will keep on voting against thier own interests and blaming the wrong people for the results.
Literally an echo chamber
That is also true.
I think that is actually true. The average poor republican doesn’t want to be wealthy, if that would mean that <insert minority of your choice> would also become more wealthy or have more rights. This also applies to other political subjects. I mean a poor republican who works a terribly paying job with no worker rights or healthcare would actively vote against politicians who say they’d want to change that situation, just to make sure that underage girls that got raped are forced to give birth to their unwanted childs they then can’t provide for.
It is sad, but I also agreed with that.
Not sure why they are like that but as long as the ones they hate also suffer the conservatives are ok.
But they never stop to see an alternative where anyone has to suffer.
That’s the interesting thing they don’t. They typically do the best they can to make lives worse for their constituents and they’ll be happy about it as long as the “others” are getting fucked over more than they are.
I don’t think it even has to be “more” so long as others as being fucked over that’s good enough for them
shitting on one group or another
That’s the whole point. They’re the party of oppression, and the people that follow that party believe that those groups should be oppressed.
