It’s so funny watching people have this problem for a literal decade, and they’re still complaining instead of using FOSS.
if you think FOSS makes anything better for the average user, especially UX, I have a bridge to sell you.
Do you have any specific notable examples? In my experience, FOSS tends to take a more no-nonsense approach to things.
How does a product that defaults to its own proprietary for-profit offerings providing a better user experience?
The argument I hear most of is that people are just used to what they’ve used in the past, and having difficulty moving to an alternative because of that isn’t indicative of the alternative offering worse UX, but rather an unwillingness to learn anything by the user.
I had to run an alias every time I wanted to change the brightness on my laptop, and it defaulted to max brightness every time it was restarted.
I get that if I was a better person I could just pull myself by my bootstraps and teach myself to sync the brightness buttons on the keyboard to work again but I’m not. On windows it just worked.
unwillingness to learn
If you try to get a professional Photoshop or After Effects or Resolve or Solidworks or Quickbooks etc etc. user to use a FOSS equivalent you will be laughed out of the building.
It’s not that they won’t learn, it’s that the alternatives literally can’t do so much of what people need it to do. And at the same time they most often look worse, are harder to use, and are sometimes less stable.
A prime example myself, I have tried to use kdenlive for YEARS to do simple subtitling. Every few years I try the latest version. Without fail it ALWAYS crashes within 20 minutes.
Same for Audacity. 5 minutes into clipping some audio… crash. 3 times in a row. And it looks dog ugly enough to turn me off to even wanting to try it in the first place.
Or GIMP, it can’t do non-destructive editing, this makes it completely unusable for many professionals.
It’s not just one or two things here or there in these apps, it’s huge sweeping problems across the entire FOSS landscape, almost none of the options are comparable for professional users.
So I’ll counter an anecdote with an anecdote, my dad is a draftsman by trade and was an engineering technologist for decades, he’s looked at Freecad back and forth and is now seriously looking at it over solidworks for his personal projects now that he’s retired, I also flipped from solidworks which I used professionally for about 5 years before changing roles. Does it have quirks, yeah it does, but so do other cad packages, and lets not pretend that solidworks is a beacon og stability, there’s a reason it was drilled into us in uni to save frequently and why it has autosaving. The UI is relatively simple, there’s plugins to customise it and it has substantially improved over the last decade when I first gave it a try, way better than my memories of using solid edge (and I personally disliked fusion, just didn’t click with me, at least freecad has a near identical workflow to SW). Am I more accepting of jankiness with Foss solutions, straightup yes, it’s provided for free without restrictions on its usage vs solidworks where if you have a maker license for example, only other maker licenses can open the sldprt file.
Another example, I’d wager it’s why you see a lot more r and python usage in statistical spaces where SPSS and SAS were used because those tools are extremely expensive for licenses (I recall a colleague talking about it costing 10s of thousanda at leaat, maybe more, company was always looking into ways they can get off of it) cost alone makes the Foss solutions more accessible.
I’ll be also fair that both of my anecdotal examples we’re using for personal projects but the point is that professional users aren’t a monolith.
I fundamental thing that makes FOSS better is not the product that exists, but that, when you see a problem, you have the option to think, “let’s see how to fix it”.
Now I have used MS Excel for most of my life, up until University end, and only recently started using LibreOffice Calc instead.
And despite me telling all my colleagues how much better the new versions of LibreOffice fresh are, I know very well that there are still some glaring problems in these programs even in general use.
However, I had experienced some problems in MS Office too and back then all I could do was feel powerless for a few seconds and then either find some workarounds or ignore the problem, depending upon what it was.
In case of LibreOffice, I can make a note of the problem and plan to report a bug and maybe even help fix it, which leaves me on a +ive note at the end of the day.
Digression: Problems with LibreOffice:
- Calc: Using click+drag on the vertical scrollbar in case of even as low as 800 records, causes lags during the scrolling.
- Writer: Images cause slowdown. This has been a major issue for a long time and you can probably find some discussions related to this, floating around.
This is one reason I’m still paying my monthly Microsoft dues. I’m an advanced [I guess] Excel user and none of the other spreadsheet programs out there can do everything Excel can do. At least not easily.
A lot of people are also just dumb. FOSS won’t fix dumb.
Whenever I get to use windows and I face their byzantine directory structure, I wonder how people put up with that shit.
Well going to .local/share/… Isn’t very Intuitive either. Try asking someone who’s new to find their Steam Directory.
People don’t know what files and folders are anymore.
Ask a non-tech person where they JUST downloaded something to… they can’t tell you.
Ask a non-tech person where they JUST downloaded something to… they can’t tell you.
Nobody really bothers to change the default though, so it only really matters if they later try to find the file without using their web browser. And if they do try to do that, “Downloads” is a pretty obvious place to look.
People blindly using their computer with zero understand of what they are doing absolutely matters. A computer is a powerful tool. I take the same attitude boomers take with their cars: If you can’t tell me how it works, you have no business using it.
On
my Android phonethe Android phone I have, I find it hard to tell where the stuff I downloaded is.
Until I connect it to the computer and see the directory structure easily.The Files app seems to be trying to do some kind of Abstraction over here.
Do you mean the byzantine directory structure for system files? The default of installing to “Program Files” doesn’t seem too unusual, although adding “x86” bit seems unnecessarily complicated for a typical end user. Same with the rest of the standard directories that people use most often.
The directory structure for system files is bad, but that’s true for Unix-derivatives too. Unix has /bin and /lib, /sbin, /usr/bin, /usr/lib, /var/opt, etc. Different versions of Unix have different ideas of what belongs where. Even different flavours of Linux have their own ideas.
At least with Linux the distro-specific packages install software where it should go.
On Windows you end up with 32-bit binaries in the 64-bit Program Files folder, and vise versa. You end up with files saved arbitrarily to three different application data directories, and sometimes your Documents folder, so sometimes the registry, why not? Should we put several folders full of drivers directly on the root of the C drive? Of course, where else would they go?
At least with Linux the distro-specific packages install software where it should go.
I keep explaining this to my grandmother but she just stares at me and says “When I was your age, we wrote things down in our Trapper Keepers”
The average windows user is tech illiterate. They don’t know what a directory is. I work with a person who opens .docx files by opening Word and using its internal search function. She does not comprehend how or where files are stored.
This is one of the biggest issues with corporate operating systems. Back in the day you booted up a computer and you got a black screen with a terminal. You had to know how things worked if you wanted to use the computer.
Today, you boot a computer and it’s simple enough that anyone with eyes and fingers can operate it. People hand iPads to babies, and even they can figure out how to navigate YouTube.
People have convinced themselves that this is “using a computer”, rather than being given a dumbed-down entertainment device designed specifically to exploit them.
People respond negatively when you suggest switching to Linux, because they fear they might actually have to learn something about how the Computer works, and never stop to understand that their illiteracy is the reason that the corporate operating systems they use suck so much.
If you exercise no power to change anything, they can shove as many ads as they want down your throat.
This. Straight up this. Just fucking use Linux, it’s ready for casual everyday use.
Yawn. Yelling at people to just use Linux is ineffective and it comes across as really condescending. It also does nothing to address the issue if how disruptive it is to switch operating systems, especially for less technical users.
LOL it absolutely is not. Not even close.
In what way is it not? It has a desktop, a browser, free app for a word processor. For the CASUAL user it’s fine. Just don’t go into the terminal, like you wouldn’t for the command prompt.
Hell, even if you do go into the command prompt it’s pretty easy if you’re on something Debian based, apt is really easy to get a hang of.
“Why does my .docx document look all mess up on my computer?”
I can open .docx just fine with LibreOffice.
Hardware compatibility. I have one machine that won’t boot any Linux installer at all. Another with constant gpu driver problems. Another where Bluetooth doesn’t work at all. Another where wifi firmware crashes all the time. It never ends.
My mother and aunt picked up on it just fine, they’re actually enjoying it more because there aren’t full screen ads that confuse them and it made their computers faster.
Bro I actively challenge you to install Mint and have problems with it. It’s nearly impossible. Worst case you’ll need to wineskin some niche Windows-only game or program, but honestly even that isn’t necessary all that often in my experience. You’re going to have a no-stress install finished in a quarter the time that a windows install would be, and a robust OS that apes the windows environment to such a degree that average non-technical users won’t have any idea they’re even using Linux.
Barring some sort of hardware incompatibility that I haven’t experienced personally, I’ve installed Mint on around a half dozen machines in the past several years and have yet to recieve a complaint from the end users. It just works.
I’ve been daily driving Mint at work for a few months and I love it. It was painless to install, and I like all the GUI/DE stuff better than windows. It also has better multi-monitor support than when I boot into windows.
But it’s still Linux so all the techy development shit works great too. I’m always in the terminal, etc.
the problem is always hardware incompatibility.
Mint installer does not boot on any machine I have.
I acquired an ewaste laptop with a 5+ year old Celeron, 4GM of RAM and a spinning rust drive. I tossed mint on there after fighting with Windows update to try to apply 3 years worth of updates and while the installer took 2 hours to complete, it actually is a bit more usable and once it’s booted it’s amusingly chirpy with random slowdowns whenever it has to hit the disc for data.
I might set it up as my daughter’s first computer. She’s getting to that age already so it’s about time to do it
Seriously. I’m pretty sure my housemate hasn’t noticed the difference between Mint and Windows. At least they haven’t asked me to help them with anything in over a month, and they would have, if they needed help.
Had some windows users loving the Cinnamon DE on Mint. They managed to get right into it straight away. Plus, on most Linux distros they come with easy to use package managers. And you can still get deb or rpm packages that can be used to install applications just like a windows installer exe.
Tell me you haven’t used Linux recently without telling me you haven’t used Linux recently.
I use it every day across many machines. Still continue to have serious hardware compatibility problems with a wide range of devices. It’s extremely frustrating.
I realize not everyone’s experience is the same, but it can still be a really bad time for some people. Maybe the same can be said about Windows too but I still think it’s not as bad.
Remember, hardware incompatibilities is very often the issue because we don’t have many users so many don’t care about Linux
The more people use Linux the more drivers will come. The better hardware will work
No, it isn’t.
Linux on a laptop can’t even reliably wake the system when you close then open a laptop lid. There are some basic things that need to work 100% of the time before Linux can be considered ready for casual everyday use.
Can you provide an example of this? Only time I’ve encountered that behaviour was with a laptop that had a defective lid-switch.
Honestly, just google it. Tons of people have that problem and if you search for it you get pages and pages of results.
I’ve commented on this meme before. All I’m going to say this time is that OneDrive has redeeming qualities. The way that Microsoft pushes it, like many things Microsoft has pushed lately, is pretty shitty.
Quickly: good examples of shitty Microsoft pushes for what they want you to use: persistent pop-ups about upgrading to Windows 10/11 from earlier versions, making the default browser setting in Outlook/office/teams/whatever, to be separate from the system default, and that default is always edge, OneDrive… I don’t need to say more about the push to OneDrive, considering it’s the point of the post.
Regarding OneDrive specifically, you can change the default save locations for MS apps to be not OneDrive. However, OneDrive does offer benefits that are great for the less technically savvy, specifically syncing user data (mainly desktop/documents/pictures)… If you don’t need a crazy amount of storage for your images/documents, etc, then having the OneDrive backup/sync enabled is a good backup solution. The only thing you need to keep on top of is that OneDrive is actually still connected to the service (logged in) and working as intended. OneDrive seems to have this tendency to logout or expire your connection, so checking on it monthly just to ensure its still backing up is the best practice.
The benefit to this backup is that it’s built into Windows, and almost entirely transparent to the user. “Saving to OneDrive” is just putting the information into a dedicated OneDrive sync folder (usually under "C:\users(username)\OneDrive - (account name)" ) which saves locally, then syncs to OneDrive in the background using something similar to the “BITS” service (background intelligent transfer service, also part of Windows).
Since this is normally very transparent to the user, it’s good for less tech savvy people, in case they suffer a failure like a hard drive loss, system crash/failure/corruption, lost/stolen/destroyed hardware, etc. All their files are synced/saved to OneDrive and they lose nothing, all they need is a Microsoft account (Hotmail/outlook.com/live.com), and to take the 30s or so to set it up. Then use the computer pretty much normally and their data is safe from loss.
There’s an absolute shit ton of alternatives, not just from cloud storage providers. I personally use both OneDrive (personal, on a Hotmail account - free tier, which IIRC is 100G), Google drive, and my Synology. OneDrive on my PC backs up documents/pictures mainly, which I use as a sync to my laptop, and I use “Synology drive” to back up my entire C:\users\username folder to my local NAS. Google drive is exclusively used on-cloud, mainly for shared documents that I collaborate with others on; mainly financial records (no credit/debit/bank info, just costs, etc), and other tracking type documents and stuff I need to share with others.
I won’t get into other alternatives just due to the sheer number of them. Needless to say, I’m very contentious of my data and losing it. I am aware that my free/public account data might be anonymised and used to train some AI somewhere, so I tend to be careful about putting any password/account data/confidential data on a service that may have access to something I don’t want it to. I use a password manager, so I don’t generally keep login info anywhere except there.
Anyways, enough about me, I want to hear what people use for their backups!
“All I’m going to say this time is that OneDrive has redeeming qualities.” Proceeds to say several more paragraphs.
All are related to the original statement.
The main thing people are upset about isn’t that OneDrive exists or that Microsoft is pushing it. It’s that updates have made it so that OneDrive folder backup is automatically enabled without user permission. Backing up files to OneDrive without being asked to. That is a privacy nightmare.
I personally host my own copy of Nextcloud and use that for anything I need to sync or back up. I have a regular back up job that snapshots the Ceph cluster it uses for storage and copies it to my own NAS box here in the house, which is automatically replicated via a Nebula network (like TailScale or Zerotier but fully self-managed) to an identical NAS at my parents’ house across town.
It does ask, but often the Yay, thanks for changing my setting that I didn’t ask you to change button is much more prominent than the Wtf I didn’t ask for this put it back how it was button, so people think they’re being told rather than asked and just confirm it without realising they had a choice. Also, a lot of people just click the Next/OK button without reading and are surprised by the consequences. It’s not a major difference than just changing the setting of people don’t realise they’re being asked to opt in and can therefore opt out, but it is a bit of a difference.
New installations of windows do not ask, and simply enable it
Hostile UX design. The “yes, make this change I don’t want” is often highlighted in a brightly colored button, meanwhile the “no thanks” is often grey or a simple link looking option, not dissimilar to what you would find for help.
They make it seem like you don’t have a choice when you absolutely do.
Having a choice in what software does is actually a big highlight for me with Windows, apart from being aggressively persuasive in getting people to do whatever they want you to do, in the end, you are given a choice.
They’re slowly eroding this away though, starting with local accounts, and I’m sure much, much more will follow.
With Linux, the only option you get is to customize your experience. Often defaults are either not apparent or not given, so you kind of stumble around trying to figure out what to do, unless you really know what you want, it can be a terrible experience.
Mac is customizable… With one big asterisk on that. You basically need to be a very advanced user to really customize anything beyond whatever the mighty blue Apple wants you to be able to do. You’re given a short list of “options” and if you want anything beyond whatever is sanctioned by Apple, here’s the command prompt, good luck 👍
Windows has been in this middle ground for a very long time. Not as free as Linux, with recommended settings across pretty much every piece of software, and defaults that generally work and provide a good experience in general. They might not be optimal, but they work. You have the option of basically doing whatever the hell you want, within reason, without having to get a PhD in computer science to do it.
With Mac, you either fit into the Apple ecosystem box, or we’ll make you fit.
Linux has no box. No walls, no limits, no rules, not even a guideline. Figure it out yourself.
… At least, that’s my take on it. I’ve used all three to some extent for various purposes. Mac is awesome when doing everyday things, a lot of what you need is abstracted away and “just works” ™, so thinking is at an all time low. Windows is very meh, it does what you want, but it’s like a moody teenager at times. It’ll just go to hell and you’ll be left to figure out wtf is going to fix it. I use Linux mainly for servers, but the UI/UX for it is essentially the aesthetic of Windows 9x/2000, but after you’ve taken LSD. When you need to get anything fixed, here’s your console, good luck. Don’t forget to sudo.
Automated backups and synch is all fine… The way MS does it super inconsistently and unpredictably sucks
“Your house, ahahah, nice one! By the way, rent is going up. How much was ‘your’ raise this year?”
Less than the rate of inflation 😮💨 guess I make less this year than last year.
UMMM ACKTUALLY I’ve got several charts that say you’re richer. You must be lying or lazy. /s
FaMiLy InCoMe Go Up MeAnS YoU aRe Ok!
…ok, but I’m a “family” of one and your stupid fucking metric is counting multiple incomes as one…
The insurance that costs you $200/month, COULD have cost you $700/month (if you chose this exact plan from this exact provider on your own without HR negotiating a bulk discount)
So, you’re not losing $200, you’re EARNING $500!!!
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Why can’t you complain about a company being shit when there are other options?
I don’t use a lot of products, I still complain about them being shit because they deserve the bad press.
So I’m a total Linux noob are there issues with drivers? I have a laptop I would consider doing this on if I wasn’t worried about it breaking.
You can get Mint on a “Live” USB flash drive, so you can boot it up and see if it handles all your hardware before you install anything.
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I solidly refuse to believe you’ve had no issues with WiFi drivers on a laptop. Otherwise, yeah it’s fine.
I’ve used various Linux distress on a half dozen laptops over rhe last 10 years and I’ve never had Wi-Fi driver issues
My fetish is sending a document as a copy and then seeing someone edit it in realtime while I’m in it.
Then don’t use MS Office?
Then don’t use MS
Office?Yep
Have to for school. But you can also just press F12 to open the normal save dialog. (I put my school stuff in one drive anyway, I just want them in folders so I need the normal saving system.)
Or uninstall one drive. It’s not rocket surgery and when done correctly I’ve never seen it re-enable itself after an update.
Even with it removed the save menu on office is a pain.
My stupid ass phone keeps demanding me to be connected to the internet in order to view photos that I TOOK ON MY PHONE.
Do you by any chance take a lot of photos on a phone that doesn’t have the capacity to store them all locally?
maybe change your gallery app to something else?
Do you have any recommendations? I’m tired of Google begging me to turn on cloud storage for my photos every time I open the photos app.
I’ve been using Aves for a while now, it’s pretty alright.
I use glimpse, which ships by default with lineage os. nit sure if it’s available anywhere. but this one semed pretty neat on a quick try:
https://github.com/IacobIonut01/Gallery
it’s free on fdroid, 2€ on google play which the developer asks to think as a donation
There aren’t enough “got dangs” in this meme
Do I look like I know what a got dang is I just want a hotdog of a gribble. You tell me what about accessories and accessory because Alamo propane is like a got dang ladybird I tell you what
Try going through.your registry and disabling one drive
Yall do know we can just disable it right?
IMO, this kind of meme post is from/for those that are scared and confused by settings dialogs.
OneDrive is a default, which can be changed.
They’d rather complain about it than spend 10 minutes fixing it.
I’d be really surprised if it took as long as ten minutes.
But we want autosafe, like libreoffice on my desktop.
Ok, but like i can just click a button.
Until they push some kind of update that requires you to find where they hid the button* (and it also defaults back to cloud)
I don’t think they do, most of the MS doomerism I see implies they probably never tried to turn any of it off. I uninstalled one drive years ago along with turning off the ads and telemetry and its all stayed that way ever since, but I keep getting told all of it will be back with the next update. I update when it prompts me to and it never undoes my settings.
Always hated how MS forces you to use their shit … I mean I get it, most wouldn’t chose to use them as they are indeed shit
I have OneDrive limited to a single swap meat folder aptly called “dumpster” and it still fucks it up weekly
You can disable it in the registry. H key local machine, software, policy, microsoft, windows, OneDrive, disable sync value change from 0 to 1 and it will turn it off. I may be a little off this was just from memory.
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That’s just an NTLite build, if you want to uninstall those things do it yourself (either with NTLite and an ISO or through command prompt like any other software)
I don’t understand the hatred of OneDrive. Your documents folder redirects to the OneDrive folder. I guess you have a piece of software that has the documents folder hard coded? Be mad at that software.
I haven’t used Windows in a few years (and never used OneDrive), so pinch of salt time, but…
I don’t like the idea of M$ having direct access to all of my files and personal data
That and, there have been mishaps with OD deleting files
Also, i personally don’t like software automagic, especially when i don’t understand what is going on under the hood
Is OD just a folder? Where are my documents actually stored? What happens if my internet goes out? How much do i trust M$ to not bungle something or sell or leak my files?
If it lost your files after constantly fighting you about where to save them, you would.
Plus the whole not asking to install, then begging for money to upgrade a service you never asked for. Until you finally have to waste hours learning how to completely disable it and get it off of every machine you own…
That breeds some resentment.
I want to have granular control over where my files are stored. If I want them stored in the cloud, I want that to be a choice I consciously make, not something that’s defaulted at the operating system level.
So the hatred isn’t really directed at OneDrive, it’s directed at the fact that the operating system is making decisions for me, and they don’t line up with what I actually want my computer to do.
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I wish more people were open to learning how to properly configure Windows for family members who will likely never switch to Linux.
That shit situation sounds entirely avoidable.
Somewhere, a Genie is howling with laughter at the magnitude of that wasted wish.
I set up my 90 year old grandmother with Ubuntu; she was extremely open to learning. If somebody’s got to learn something, then why not the more useful skill? That’s better for the user, the teacher, and society at large.
Even a lot of young people are simply unwilling to learn something different if there’s any way to avoid it. Your grandmother is not at all typical.
In my family we make fun of those people
